Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/14/2004 03:30 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                                
      CSHJR 44(FSH)-SEA OTTER RESEARCH/ENDANGERED SPECIES                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR SCOTT  OGAN called the Senate  Resources Standing Committee                                                             
meeting  to  order at  3:30  p.m.  Present were  Senators  Thomas                                                               
Wagoner, Fred Dyson, Ralph Seekins  and Chair Scott Ogan. Senator                                                               
Ben Stevens arrived at 5:15. The  first order of business to come                                                               
before the committee was CSHJR 44(FSH).                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAN  OGG, sponsor, of  HJR 44, said  the Southwest                                                               
Alaska population of Northern Sea  Otters has declines as much as                                                               
65 percent since  the mid-1970s. In responds  to this precipitous                                                               
decline,  the United  States Fish  and Wildlife  Service recently                                                               
proposed  listing  the sea  otters  in  the Southwest  region  as                                                               
threatened   under  the   Endangered  Species   Act.  This   bill                                                               
recognizes that  drop. Studies funded  by the  federal government                                                               
have found  that the of  another species, the Stellar  Sea lion's                                                               
decline is not necessarily related  to commercial fisheries. This                                                               
resolution asks  the federal government  to put $5  million aside                                                               
each year  over the next five  years to study this  animal over a                                                               
period in the area of Kodiak.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked how many sea  otters were going to  get studied                                                               
for $25 million. "That's a lot of money!"                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied that he didn't know their numbers.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS  asked for an estimate  of economic damages                                                               
that could  potentially happen if  the reasons for the  sea otter                                                               
decline were not studied.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   OGG  replied   Kodiak  Island   salmon  fishery,                                                               
presently valued  at $25  million, could  go away  if information                                                               
didn't show  there was no  connection between  commercial fishing                                                               
and the decline  in sea otters.  The Kenai  Peninsula has another                                                               
salmon  fishery that  the same  thing could  happen to.  Possibly                                                               
crab fisheries  could be taken out.  It could all add  up to $200                                                               
million  to $300  million. Pollock  fisheries might  be affected,                                                               
because  they  are  farther  out,  but  impacts  to  the  coastal                                                               
communities  that  are  struggling   already  could  become  very                                                               
serious.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS remarked  that he  thought the  money for  a sea                                                               
otter study would be well spent.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked if sea otters are listed as threatened now.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied that the  Wildlife Service is going to                                                               
list them as  threatened and that is why public  comment is being                                                               
taken on  it at  this point.  It can't be  said for  certain that                                                               
commercial fishing  doesn't have  an impact until  information is                                                               
gathered.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     They  started putting  large circles  around where  the                                                                    
     Stellar sea  lions live and  they'll do the  same thing                                                                    
     with  the  sea  otters.... It  knocked  out  incredible                                                                    
     portions of fisheries  and we had to fight  to get them                                                                    
     back.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  urged that a  study seemed  to be a  much better                                                               
way of dealing with the decline than the shotgun approach.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG explained  that  the people  who studied  the                                                               
Stellar sea lions  suggested that $5 million every  year for five                                                               
years would provide enough data for  a sea otter study. The study                                                               
on Stellar sea lions cost $100 million.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  asked if  he  envisioned  the  study being  done  as                                                               
government research.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  answered that  usually the money  is funneled                                                               
through one  of the  government agencies.  The Stellar  sea lions                                                               
study  is  presently  done  through   the  National  Oceanic  and                                                               
Atmospheric Administration  (NOAA) and National  Marine Fisheries                                                               
Service  (NMFS)  in the  Department  of  Commerce. Contracts  are                                                               
usually picked up by universities.  This one would go through the                                                               
U.S.  Fish  and  Wildlife  Service, which  would  decide  on  the                                                               
program. Kodiak already has research  facilities from the Stellar                                                               
sea lion study.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN exclaimed,  "There seems to be  more money, sometimes,                                                               
in researching why fishing isn't good than there is in fishing!"                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG said  it  seemed like  that,  but in  today's                                                               
reality, people  in the fishing industry  understand that without                                                               
the research they won't be able to fish.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  said he was  concerned about specifying an  amount to                                                               
be  spent and  would feel  more comfortable  with language  like,                                                               
"Congress  will  provide  adequate  or  sufficient  funding."  He                                                               
wanted  to  know  if  there   were  other  considerations  behind                                                               
focusing the study in Kodiak.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  replied that the sea  otter population starts                                                               
at  the tip  of  the Kenai  Peninsula and  goes  down the  Alaska                                                               
Peninsula including  Kodiak Island  and goes  out the  chain. One                                                               
needs to  look for  research facilities that  exist in  that area                                                               
and  scientists  who work  in  that  field.  Those are  found  in                                                               
Kodiak;  those are  the scientists  he talked  to about  what was                                                               
needed to accomplish this type of study.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked if anyone knew  how many sea otters  were taken                                                               
for subsistence hunting.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied  he didn't really know  and that those                                                               
products can't be sold.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THOMAS  WAGONER informed them that  the finished products                                                               
made from  sea otter pelts can  be bartered or sold,  but he said                                                               
there had been very little hunting  of sea otters in Kachemak Bay                                                               
for several years. He thought Kodiak  was a perfect area in which                                                               
to conduct this research.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. JULIE  DECKER, Executive Director, Southeast  Alaska Regional                                                               
Dive  Fisheries  Association  (SARDFA), said  she  had  submitted                                                               
written comments  in support of  HJR 44. Research would  not only                                                               
indicate why  there is a decline,  but the extent of  it as well.                                                               
She suggested adding three whereas  clauses that contain language                                                               
from  the  Federal  Register noticing  the  proposed  listing  as                                                               
threatened as follows:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
   1. On page 2, line 1, insert: "Whereas information from                                                                      
     monitoring  programs  administered  by NMFS  indicates  that                                                               
     interactions  between sea  otters  and commercial  fisheries                                                               
     result  in less  than  one instance  of  mortality per  year                                                               
     within  the Southwest  Alaska  distinct population  segment;                                                               
     and"                                                                                                                       
   2. After the above, insert: "Whereas information from the MTRP                                                               
     estimates  the subsistence  harvest of  sea otters  from the                                                               
     Southwest Alaska distinct  population segment (DPS) averaged                                                               
     less than 100  sea otters per year during the  1990s and the                                                               
     impacts of the subsistence harvest is negligible; and"                                                                     
   3. On page 2, line 4, insert: "Whereas the cause of the                                                                      
     decline in  abundance of the Southwest  Alaska population of                                                               
     the Northern  Sea Otter is  unknown, although the  weight of                                                               
     evidence  of available  information suggests  that predation                                                               
     by killer  whales may be  the most  likely cause of  the sea                                                               
     otter decline in the Aleutian Islands; and"                                                                                
   4. On page 2, line 18, insert "and be it further resolved that                                                               
     the  Alaska  State  Legislature  respectfully  requests  the                                                               
     United  States  Fish  and  Wildlife  Service  not  list  the                                                               
     Southwest Alaska  sea otter as  threatened until  the amount                                                               
     of  decline  and  cause  of  decline  is  better  understood                                                               
     through intensive research."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  responded that  Ms. Decker is  addressing the                                                               
Southwest  population where  the  Fish and  Wildlife Service  has                                                               
done preliminary studies noticing  the 65 percent decline. That's                                                               
the reason they  put up the public notice. He  didn't know if the                                                               
resolution could ask them to not  list them as threatened as that                                                               
is  a scientific  determination. That  is  why he  is asking  for                                                               
money to  get the  scientific determination.  He wanted  to leave                                                               
the resolution the way it is.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked if this is  a decline from an  all-time high or                                                               
from an average number.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  couldn't   answer  that  definitively.  Some                                                               
thought the  reason for the  Stellar sea lion decline  is because                                                               
of extensive whale  hunting in the 30s and 40s  - that it knocked                                                               
out a  whole segment of prey  and the sea lion  population filled                                                               
that void  by the 1970s. He  speculated that maybe the  1970s was                                                               
an all-time high of recovery.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THOMAS   WAGONER  moved  to  pass   CSHJR  44(FSH)  from                                                               
committee with a  zero fiscal note. There were  no objections and                                                               
it was so ordered.                                                                                                              

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